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Post by zach on Feb 11, 2007 6:51:20 GMT 7
are you serious? you can do your own research and google it yourself, but i think you'll find in the legal code that offenses like tax evasion and gouging expletives with a key into Hu Jintao's new BMW might get you a one way ticket to the afterlife
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Post by pregnantbob on Feb 11, 2007 8:43:30 GMT 7
Why do i need to do my own research when YOU'RE the one who's making wild assertions?
You made a hyperbolic comment about offences 'slightly greater outrage' than stealing bicycles, im interested whether you have actual evidence to back it up or if you're just making it up.
Either way it's fine by me, cause your immediate defensive stance pretty much says all i needed to know.
I haven't studied the Chinese legal system in great detail, but the subjects i took at law school and reading most legal journals will argue that the system will see better days.
I suppose we're talking two different things, you're bringing in melodrama into the topic where as i'm interested to debate the logistics behind a massive undertaking to Transform Chinese's legal system.
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Post by zach on Feb 11, 2007 8:57:10 GMT 7
"wild assertions", "defensive"?! haha. it's a fucking joke, geez. That should be obvious from the comment about keying the car. What makes you think I or this thread was talking about real issues in the Chinese judicial system?
If you do seek real information on China's capital punishment, you can do your own research, I've done mine. Unfortunately you'll probably find info from places like Amnesty Intnl and others to be blocked on the web. I'm not against capital-punishment on principle but on a serious note, I do believe that stealing a bike is worse than certain political/religious offenses that can get you executed here
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Post by pregnantbob on Feb 11, 2007 9:05:46 GMT 7
I just thought you were mixing in jokes to hide a lack of solid foundation from whence you maketh such claims. I'm not seeking informational on capital punishment in China, i worked for Amnesty in Sydney and I was an executive of Amnesty on my uni campus, so i'm well aware of most of the facts. HENCE WHY i asked you to provide evidence to support your claims, now you tell me it was all a joke. Sorry if i think you're just deflecting my asking of your evidence provision. By the way, this is the interweb. It's Serious Business.
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Post by pregnantbob on Feb 11, 2007 9:13:07 GMT 7
That last comment was me saying 'let's build a bridge and get over it'
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Post by zachj on Feb 11, 2007 9:21:45 GMT 7
ok, it's cool. yea, i was joking and making exaggerated remarks for fun, I'm well-informed on China's capital punishment issues. There is no evidence that using a key to gouge your name in Hu Jintao's car will get you killed, it would just be a good guess. and since you've worked with AI then you are probably very familiar with the types of real crimes to which I was alluding.
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Post by Craig on Feb 12, 2007 11:44:49 GMT 7
It is tradtional to use smileys or other such mannerisms on the internet, to indicate when sarcasm or exaggeration is being used. I certainly thought that Zach was being serious. At least, the joke was in bad taste.
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Post by zach on Feb 12, 2007 14:16:57 GMT 7
bad taste? geez Craig you must be kidding too. I didn't realize we weren't supposed to make any exaggerations about China's use of capital punishment or other policies/practices on this site.
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Post by pregnantbob on Feb 12, 2007 16:15:22 GMT 7
I think you're missing the point entirely Zach.
As Craig and I have both said, we took you seriously with the claims you made, because you gave no indication that you were joking... for quite a few posts may I add. You could have just added a smiley there and here... or just did something to make it more obvious... as obviously i wasn't in on your joke especially when instead of telling me straight off you were joking you chose to circumvent answering my questions which made me feel like you have no idea what you were talking about and making things up...
WHICH IS FINE if you're taking the piss, but remember a joke is only funny if other people are in on it. Eh *wink wink* say no more *nudge nudge*
So again, the problem isn't what you're implying, that the site somehow is upholder of the CCP's policies and incredibly political correct, it's more the fact that you're forgetting sarcasm is not a written art.
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Post by zach on Feb 13, 2007 9:26:02 GMT 7
You're right pregnantbob, I may have missed Craig's point....I should have been much more clear, just as he should have been much more clear about what was "in bad taste". The tone of my earlier messages didn't express my intentions well at all, obviously.
Originally I just wanted to make a quick, light-hearted post that expressed my surprise at such a light sentence for stealing bikes when other crimes are dealt with much more harshly in my opinion. When you asked me for information I really wasn't trying to be rude and say "GOOGLE IT YOURSELF!" But I wasn't trying to prove some point or start a debate on the subjective nature of the words "slightly more outrageous crimes", so I just didn't feel the need to do the research for someone else or start defending my statements. That's all. I should have been more clear in my response to you, instead of tritely telling you to do your own research.
There seems to be a lot misunderstanding on both sides about what we are really talking about. I wasn't joking in the original post, but it was not meant to spark serious debate. I personally think that illegal possession of a firearm(a capital offense) is only slightly more outrageous than stealing a bike. Tax evasion and graft are too, but supposedly require a massive amount of money to be executed for. I just didn't want to bring a lot of political/religious drama into the forum or start debating how slight/serious these crimes really are when compared to stealing a bike.
I apologize to you pregnantbob, for coming across rudely in my first reply to you. I realize that sarcasm is difficult to express in written form, however the only thing that I was joking about was keying Hu's beamer, and I still think that is a pretty obvious joke.
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Post by Craig on Feb 13, 2007 12:13:02 GMT 7
All I want is for people to be civil and not insult our hosts, the Chinese. I have seen far too many message boards overrun with insults and flaming. Look at shanghaiexpat.com, for instance. You have people making sarcastic comments, other people take offense, and the informative, insightful regular posters go elsewhere. The only regulars remaining are the flamers, who take delight in torching any newbies who enter. I've seen it happen a thousand times, and it's not going to happen HERE. Making sarcastic, lame jokes (and if it was a joke, it sure was a lame one) about the President's BMW is just begging for trouble. It contributes nothing to the discussion (which was about petty theft) and changes the subject to politics, which I'd rather not discuss. It's not on-topic, there are thousands of web boards where you can discuss Chinese politics. This board is for talking about Ningbo. I don't mind if things get chatty and off-topic, but flamebait is just too much.
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keran
Junior Member
Posts: 8
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Post by keran on Feb 13, 2007 15:35:26 GMT 7
take care the thieves..
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Post by zach on Feb 14, 2007 8:27:37 GMT 7
I agree with you totally Craig. We've had a number of threads that went from light-hearted to simply racist, and that should stop. However it doesn't apply to this thread. My comments were simply not offensive to anyone who isn't hypersensitive. In principle, my opinion that the judicial system here might be imbalanced in its punishments is no more inflammatory than you implying that they are too lenient on bicycle thieves. In fact, i tried to avoid expanding on the subject just because i didn't want to start a debate that might descend into China-bashing.
if you thought the joke was lame, that's cool. but`this wasn't a case of being offensive to our Chinese hosts at all and I wanted to make that clear. As far as I am concerned this thread is over. The lady who asked the original question is long gone, so I'm gonna let it be and I think everyone should do the same.
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Post by suzy on Apr 15, 2007 11:39:23 GMT 7
Well.I think Hangzhou is much safer than Ningbo.It still depends on which area do you live in.Eh???
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